To Build a Better Life With Confidence
The International Community wants to help all the nations in both entities -
the RS and Federation, with a promise that one builds a better life with
confidence - the responsibilities of BiH and those of the entities are
clearly and certainly stated in the Dayton Agreement which is above all the
Laws in this area
SARAJEVO, July 30th - Carlos Westendorp, High Representative of the United
Nations for BiH, received our Editor in Chief, Tomo Maric, and a journalist,
Milenko Sajic, at his office in Sarajevo and gave an exclusive interview on
the occasion of the fifty-fifth anniversary of the "Glas Srpski". Not even
one question directed to Mr. Westendorp remained unanswered nor did he make
any "fences" for any topic that was discussed during the almost two-hour
conversation.
Mr.Westendorp, what was the meaning of your last statement
made in New York, when you said that the implementation of the Dayton
Agreement is "a half filled glass"? What is the filled half and what is the
unfilled one?
As I am an optimist I hope that the glass
will be filled to the brim in the months to come! That is exactly the
interest of the RS citizens. There have been some positive changes in the
economic reforms lately, the IC has increased it's support, there is more
pluralism in the RS than before, there is more struggle against corruption
and criminality. Besides, there have been many other important changes like
introducing of common licence plates, new currency, passports so that the
citizens of the RS do not have to have a visa for travelling to Croatia.
However, there are plenty of more important things that need to be solved
and I will emphasise only two of those, the return of refugees and
legislation in the field of property and ownership. Speaking of this I do
not refer only to return of refugees to Srpska but also the return of Serbs
into their homes in the BiH Federation and Croatia, which should be one
global operation.
There is an encouraging attitude of Croatia which now accepts the
possibility for the Serb refugees from Knin krajina and Eastern Slavonia to
return to their homes, although we are still waiting for final results of
those returns. The returns into the RS have not yet started on a big scale,
except for Kozarac. Still, although this is not enough I think that this is
a positive step.
I keep on putting pressure on authorities, in the RS as well as in
the BiH Federation, to enable returns of refugees if they want to return to
their homes and we will provide protection for the returnees. I think that
this is the only way for Bosnia to heal its wounds, if the people live
together again.
Another important issue is the property laws which should enable
returns. I am disappointed because the RS has not solved this issue yet, but
I hope that it will be done before the elections.
It is a fact that the Dayton Agreement is a law above all
laws, however the politicians are using it only in their addressing to the
IC. On the other hand, when they are addressing their people, they are still
avoiding it and instead they are using strong national emotions. What is the
reason for such behaviour of the BiH politicians?
The Dayton Agreement does not have the same
popularity in all the political parties. At the moment we have two political
parties in the Croat people, HDZ and HNI who struggle for its
implementation, or at least that is what they state verbally. On the other
hand in the RS there is a different situation because this entity is still
homogeneous and the media have not always been open to all political
options. I think that we will be listening to national ideas in BiH for a
long period, which is not a bad thing if it is democratic and moderate
nationalism. A problem appears when it becomes exclusive and excludes
everything else.
Personally I think that it is a problem which includes dialogue,
tolerance and education. I believe that there are several alternatives for
the Dayton Agreement. Certain extremists want a minimum dose of a state,
while on the other hand there are extremists who support a kind of unitary
BiH and in the Agreement they are looking for the overdosed state. We must
find some kind of a medium. This means to have a state which is sustainable,
stable and that all the significant competencies are in the hands of the
entities.
Deserved, But Differently
How do you comment on the replacement of the leading
persons in 16 local radio stations in Srpska?
The recent replacement in those 16
local radio stations is not in accordance with the principles and standards
of the Media Commission. I am sure that they might have deserved this, but
it should have been done in a correct manner. That is exactly the kind of
work which should be in the authority of the Media Commission which would
decide whether all the conditions required for work are fulfilled.
There is an opinion in Srpska that there is a great
difference in implementation of the Peace Agreement in Brcko and Mostar. In
other words, this Agreement did not create a competition for its
implementation, but for as little implementation as possible. Is this
conclusion true and is it being implemented more in Brcko than in Mostar?
The situation between these two cities is different,
because an arbitration decision needs to be passed for Brcko, according to
the Dayton Agreement. However, the multiethnic situation is far better in
Brcko than in Mostar. I know that Brcko is of vital significance to the RS
and that is why I encourage the parties in the RS to be as cooperative as
possible with regard to this issue. It is vital for the BiH Federation as
well, but for other reasons such as freedom of movement, multiethnicity,
economy. Brcko can become a model of multiethnicity for the entire state.
As far as Mostar is concerned, I am worried because the situation is
very tense and it can be compared with the movies on the Wild West where
everyone stands on the other end of the street. Due to this reason in that
city we must create conditions similar to the ones in Brcko. Both of these
cities, although in a different situation, can learn from each other.
In the light of dual interpretation of individual documents
the most important issue at the moment is privatisation. Under whose
authority is this issue?
Entities'! Clearly, entities'! However, the
state of BiH must regulate this issue by a "thin" framework, a law which
includes three principles, in order to avoid problems which can be created
between the entities. One of these principles excludes discrimination and
this benefits all the people who lived in BiH before the war as well as
those who are now refugees in the other entity. The other principle is
transparency, in order to prevent flow of the money from privatisation into
the pockets of individuals. The third principle is revision of the previous
privatisation which was decided earlier, but did not obey these principles.
When it comes to privatisation of companies that were owned by citizens of
this state, you can do that in accordance with regulations of one or the
other entity. However, all the other authorities, except for these three
principles, are in the entities.
After the conferences in Bonn, Sintra, London and Luxembourg
an impression was created that there have been some activities on revision
of the Dayton Agreement and there is even mention of a Dayton 2. Is
something like that possible?
The words like "revision of Dayton" and
"Dayton 2" are propaganda. These conferences have not changed Dayton nor can
they do that. For Dayton 2 you need to have people to accept it, and there
is no such thing around here. On the other hand, the Peace Agreement is
sometimes a matter of interpretation. The HR is given the right of
interpretation, but we want all the signatories of the Agreement to
participate.
Here we must distinguish meetings of the PIC, such as the
one in Bonn, where local authorities present their opinions on certain
problems and agree on the conclusions themselves. Totally different are
conferences where the PIC Steering Board makes certain conclusions which are
only binding for IC members! Off course, we put pressure on the authorities
to implement those conclusions as we believe that they represent the best
solution of a problem. After the Luxembourg Declaration, I made a statement
in Banja Luka saying that it was only binding for us, who are members of the
IC, and that any revision of the DA was out of question.
A major problem in the DA is the issue of war crime
indictees and their arrest. However, the fact is that the cases that have
taken place in Prijedor, starting from that of Simo Drljaca, and Dr.
Kovacevic and including the most recent one of Vuckovic brothers, have
turned this town into a "town of fear". Is that correct?
There have been similar cases in
other places, too, such as Bijeljina and Vares. The problem here is that
people in those places think that such things only happen to them. On the
other hand, I need to say that the percentage of Serb indictees is larger
than that of Croat or Bosniak indictees. In order to establish a balance,
local authorities must cooperate, which has not been the case with the Serb
side. This can still change if the authorities start cooperating with the
Hague Tribunal on the matter. The suspects must realise that they would be
provided with a fair trial and that they will be released if they are proven
not guilty. I also believe that, if some of the indictees fail to surrender
or are not, eventually, arrested, then there is a danger of collective guilt
concentrating in them. The IC does not want to arrest those by using force,
that is the last means that the IC will always resort to, but rather to get
them to surrender voluntarily or to be delivered to the Hague by the
authorities, of course, with all necessary safety guarantees. This is the
best way to avoid this collective fear that exists in certain places.
The United States recently gave up on arresting
Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic. What is this supposed to mean?
This has recently been denied by the
U.S. Therefore, their position has not changed. My personal opinion, which
is not the opinion of those in charge of implementing such plans and whom
you are now referring to, which was published in the New York Times, is that
the situation has not changed. Last year, Radovan Karadzic still had a lot
of influence here and was protected by RS authorities. We know that he was
one of the leaders here and that he acted behind the scenes. Not only was he
protected, but he also conducted illegal business activities with a certain
group of people. However, people in the RS are aware of that and the
situation has changed in this regard, especially now, in a situation where
we have more political pluralism and the environment around Karadzic is
different, too. This is why I think that if there is an international unit
planning to arrest Karadzic, this plan must be different now because the
situation is different. The ultimate goal has remained the same, only the
means of achieving it have changed. However, I say that this is my personal
opinion, and if there are any such plans, I am not aware of those.
What would be your assessment of the current
political engagement of the three key politicians in the RS, President
Plavsic, Prime Minister Dodik and Momcilo Krajisnik?
The IC supports those politicians
which implement the DA in the interest of people of this country. I have no
personal feelings towards any particular politician in the RS. I tried to
cooperate with Mr. Krajisnik in order to help the RS people, but this
cooperation was not very successful. On the other side, we have a better
cooperation with President Plavsic, Prime Minister Dodik and Mr. Zivko
Radisic, they are working in the interest of their people and the progress
that has been made in the last seven months is a lot stronger than that made
in the last few years together. This is why we believe that political
parties, such as the SDS and the Serb Radical Party, cannot really help
restore the well-being of people in the RS. They can change though, and if,
by some wonder, Momcilo Krajisniks starts to cooperate, he will be given our
immediate support. However, wonders happen rarely.
Is it possible that the Kosovo crisis could transmit
into the territory of BiH, i.e. into the two Bosnian entities?
This is a serious problem. And, as I
always say, "if your neighbour's house is burning, you should always worry
about your own house, especially if it has been made out of flammable
material".
The only solution of the Kosovo issue is a peaceful solution.
Albanians and Serbs need to live together there and need to establish a
balanced authority that will make their co-existence possible. I think that
President Milosevic made a big mistake by denying the autonomy of Kosovo
back in 1989. However, it would also be a big mistake if we would support
the independence of Kosovo now. I believe that there is a solution somewhere
between these two ends. In the case of the latter, there will be a war
there, with genocide and violence, too, which would certainly reflect in
BiH.
RS sport teams are still not participating in
European championships. Sports workers believe that sports issues should be
the responsibility of entities, but, obviously, there are some problems
here. Can those be resolved?
The issue of sports in BiH is not
regulated in the DA. The issue is not a political one either, and it should
be dealt with by sports associations. However, it is true that there are
certain rules and regulations related to their international participation,
similar to those of the international football organization (FIFA), for
example. We have tried to get them to accept teams from the RS and the BH
Federation for a certain period of time of two up to three years. And, we
would always give an example of the United Kingdom, where there are more
football associations. However, this idea has not been accepted. Therefore,
an acceptable and practical solution needs to be reached with a lot of
goodwill, based on which teams from both entities could participate at
international competitions individually and jointly. This is what I, in my
capacity as the High Representative, cannot impose, this is not within my
mandate. But, I can still help by talking to your associations, the Ministry
of Sports...
A Media Commission has been established for BiH
without any entity representatives sitting in it. Whom does it belong to and
what is its media jurisdiction about?
The issue of media, i.e. the
regulation of media, is the responsibility of entities. This is why we
signed an MoU with the respective entities' authorities. In the BH TV
reconstruction process, we offered to Mr. Krajsinik that the same MoU should
be signed with him too. This is because we believe that the Serbs should
also have the status of a constitutive nation in the BH Federation. One day,
if SRT and the BH TV wish to establish a common channel or a TV station,
they will be able to do so, which is not their obligation, but rather a
possibility for the future. While this should be regulated through media
legislation in both entities, these and similar issues are to be resolved by
the Media Commission in this period of transition. This commission is now
comprised of IC members, who will be replaced by local media experts in due
time. The Commission will only work in this period of media reconstruction,
and its main goal is to ensure that all media work in accordance with the
Charter on Journalism, just as it is the case in all democratic countries.
Those that comply with the rules will be granted licences to work.
Mr Westendorp, elections that are ahead of us can
lead to a number of changes. What would be your message for citizens of the
RS in this regard?
People who know a country best are
people who live in it. We cannot understand you as much as you can, but we
can help create mutual trust here. I wish to see this country with two
powerful entities becoming a part of Europe in the interest of its people,
but , also, in the interest of Europe, because we want to have a stable
Europe. I believe that the forthcoming elections will be held in a fair and
correct atmosphere and that the people here will realise that the elections
represent an opportunity to change the current situation if they do not like
it. The communist era in which one just had to vote for the ruling
authorities is over. Things can be changed now! I want to see such changes
taking place in this country. I want to see citizens of this country voting
for those who work in their interest and giving a vote of confidence to
those who believe that the RS, the BH Federation and BiH represent a family
of free nations.
Return
What happened to the Year of Return?
The year of return was a motto. When
you have a certain product, and you want to sell it, you normally create a
motto for it. Sometimes people "buy it". Unfortunately, this motto failed
this year. Out of 50,000 returnees included in the UNHCR plans for this
year, only 11,000 have so far returned. However, I hope that this number
will increase until September, by the beginning of a new school year.
Certain progress was visible earlier this year, with returns to Drvar. But
this entire process then ceased due to the incidents which, I believe, were
staged by "hard liners", and we are now to continue from the point which was
there prior to the incidents.
We have to continue with returns for at least another two years,
because it seems to me that after that time people will decide to stay,
rather than to return. So instead of declaring 1998 the year of return, we
should have declared "1998, 1999 and 2000 years of return".
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